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 Alternative Medicine is Dumb and Dangerous 
 

viking_from_norway

Staff Sergeant
Posts: 617
Joined: 27 May 2009

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 00:59 Profile Norway


wrath_of_grunge wrote:

viking_from_norway wrote:

Massage is an alternative treatment, which helps me and my headaches, and 100 000's of other people. dangerous and a scam my [TOS Violation].




Quote:

In the United States there are about 300,000 licensed massage therapists.[citation needed] Most states in the United States require a license to practice massage therapy. If a state does not have any massage laws then a practitioner need not apply for a license with the state. However, the practitioner will need to check whether any local or county laws cover massage therapy. Training programs in the US are typically 500–1000 hours in length, and can award a certificate, diploma, or degree depending on the particular school.[50] There are around 1,300 programs training massage therapists in the country and study will often include anatomy and physiology, kinesiology, massage techniques, first aid and CPR, business, ethical and legal issues, and hands on practice along with continuing education requirements if regulated.[7] The Commission on Massage Therapy Accreditation (COMTA) is one of the organizations that works with massage schools in the U.S.



i would say that pretty much disqualifies it from being alternative medicine and makes it mainstream.



So? Its still an alternative treatment, whatever you opinion of it or not.

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Accolo usque ab beo
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wrath_of_grunge

Private First Class
Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 06:29 Profile


viking_from_norway wrote:

wrath_of_grunge wrote:

viking_from_norway wrote:

Massage is an alternative treatment, which helps me and my headaches, and 100 000's of other people. dangerous and a scam my [TOS Violation].




Quote:

In the United States there are about 300,000 licensed massage therapists.[citation needed] Most states in the United States require a license to practice massage therapy. If a state does not have any massage laws then a practitioner need not apply for a license with the state. However, the practitioner will need to check whether any local or county laws cover massage therapy. Training programs in the US are typically 500–1000 hours in length, and can award a certificate, diploma, or degree depending on the particular school.[50] There are around 1,300 programs training massage therapists in the country and study will often include anatomy and physiology, kinesiology, massage techniques, first aid and CPR, business, ethical and legal issues, and hands on practice along with continuing education requirements if regulated.[7] The Commission on Massage Therapy Accreditation (COMTA) is one of the organizations that works with massage schools in the U.S.



i would say that pretty much disqualifies it from being alternative medicine and makes it mainstream.



So? Its still an alternative treatment, whatever you opinion of it or not.



oh i wouldn't call that my opinion. massage is a recognized institutional medicinal practice. hence the standardized certification and training. a whole organization has sprang up of training and employing masseuses. that tends to take it from being an alternative treatment and put it into the realm of mainstream. much like a chiropractor.

a good example for the argument you're trying to make would be acupuncture.
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/

10-15 years ago, nobody took acupuncture seriously. nowadays that's changed. but it's still considered a alternative medicine.

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wrath_of_grunge

Private First Class
Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 06:33 Profile


here's some good stuff i found on that site...
Quote:

Defining CAM

Defining CAM is difficult, because the field is very broad and constantly changing. NCCAM defines CAM as a group of diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not generally considered part of conventional medicineMedicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) or D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) degrees and by their allied health professionals such as physical therapists, psychologists, and registered nurses.. Conventional medicine (also called Western or allopathic medicine) is medicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) and D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) degrees and by allied health professionals, such as physical therapists, psychologists, and registered nurses. The boundaries between CAM and conventional medicine are not absolute, and specific CAM practices may, over time, become widely accepted.

"Complementary medicine" refers to use of CAM together with conventional medicine, such as using acupunctureA family of procedures that originated in traditional Chinese medicine. Acupuncture is the stimulation of specific points on the body by a variety of techniques, including the insertion of thin metal needles though the skin. It is intended to remove blockages in the flow of qi and restore and maintain health. in addition to usual care to help lessen pain. Most use of CAM by Americans is complementary. "Alternative medicine" refers to use of CAM in place of conventional medicine. "Integrative medicine" (also called integrated medicine) refers to a practice that combines both conventional and CAM treatments for which there is evidence of safety and effectiveness.



here's there section on massage therapy. maybe you'll understand that i'm not outright disagreeing with you but trying to show how ingrained massage therapy is into our current medical system. that makes it a mainstream treatment.

Quote:

Manipulative and Body-Based Practices

Manipulative and body-based practices focus primarily on the structures and systems of the body, including the bones and joints, soft tissues, and circulatory and lymphatic systems. Two commonly used therapies fall within this category:

* Spinal manipulationThe application of controlled force to a joint, moving it beyond the normal range of motion in an effort to aid in restoring health. Manipulation may be performed as a part of other therapies or whole medical systems, including chiropractic medicine, massage, and naturopathy. is performed by chiropractors and by other health care professionals such as physical therapists, osteopaths, and some conventional medical doctors. Practitioners use their hands or a device to apply a controlled force to a joint of the spine, moving it beyond its passive range of motion; the amount of force applied depends on the form of manipulation used. Spinal manipulation is among the treatment options used by people with low-back pain—a very common condition that can be difficult to treat.
* The term massagePressing, rubbing, and moving muscles and other soft tissues of the body, primarily by using the hands and fingers. The aim is to increase the flow of blood and oxygen to the massaged area. therapy encompasses many different techniques. In general, therapists press, rub, and otherwise manipulate the muscles and other soft tissues of the body. People use massage for a variety of health-related purposes, including to relieve pain, rehabilitate sports injuries, reduce stress, increase relaxation, address anxiety and depression, and aid general well-being.

Historical note: Spinal manipulation has been used since the time of the ancient Greeks and was incorporated into chiropractic and osteopathic medicine in the late 19th century. Massage therapy dates back thousands of years. References to massage appear in writings from ancient China, Japan, India, Arabic nations, Egypt, Greece (Hippocrates defined medicine as "the art of rubbing"), and Rome.

viking_from_norway

Staff Sergeant
Posts: 617
Joined: 27 May 2009

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 10:00 Profile Norway


wrath_of_grunge wrote:

here's some good stuff i found on that site...
Quote:

Defining CAM

Defining CAM is difficult, because the field is very broad and constantly changing. NCCAM defines CAM as a group of diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not generally considered part of conventional medicineMedicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) or D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) degrees and by their allied health professionals such as physical therapists, psychologists, and registered nurses.. Conventional medicine (also called Western or allopathic medicine) is medicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) and D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) degrees and by allied health professionals, such as physical therapists, psychologists, and registered nurses. The boundaries between CAM and conventional medicine are not absolute, and specific CAM practices may, over time, become widely accepted.

"Complementary medicine" refers to use of CAM together with conventional medicine, such as using acupunctureA family of procedures that originated in traditional Chinese medicine. Acupuncture is the stimulation of specific points on the body by a variety of techniques, including the insertion of thin metal needles though the skin. It is intended to remove blockages in the flow of qi and restore and maintain health. in addition to usual care to help lessen pain. Most use of CAM by Americans is complementary. "Alternative medicine" refers to use of CAM in place of conventional medicine. "Integrative medicine" (also called integrated medicine) refers to a practice that combines both conventional and CAM treatments for which there is evidence of safety and effectiveness.



here's there section on massage therapy. maybe you'll understand that i'm not outright disagreeing with you but trying to show how ingrained massage therapy is into our current medical system. that makes it a mainstream treatment.

Quote:

Manipulative and Body-Based Practices

Manipulative and body-based practices focus primarily on the structures and systems of the body, including the bones and joints, soft tissues, and circulatory and lymphatic systems. Two commonly used therapies fall within this category:

* Spinal manipulationThe application of controlled force to a joint, moving it beyond the normal range of motion in an effort to aid in restoring health. Manipulation may be performed as a part of other therapies or whole medical systems, including chiropractic medicine, massage, and naturopathy. is performed by chiropractors and by other health care professionals such as physical therapists, osteopaths, and some conventional medical doctors. Practitioners use their hands or a device to apply a controlled force to a joint of the spine, moving it beyond its passive range of motion; the amount of force applied depends on the form of manipulation used. Spinal manipulation is among the treatment options used by people with low-back pain—a very common condition that can be difficult to treat.
* The term massagePressing, rubbing, and moving muscles and other soft tissues of the body, primarily by using the hands and fingers. The aim is to increase the flow of blood and oxygen to the massaged area. therapy encompasses many different techniques. In general, therapists press, rub, and otherwise manipulate the muscles and other soft tissues of the body. People use massage for a variety of health-related purposes, including to relieve pain, rehabilitate sports injuries, reduce stress, increase relaxation, address anxiety and depression, and aid general well-being.

Historical note: Spinal manipulation has been used since the time of the ancient Greeks and was incorporated into chiropractic and osteopathic medicine in the late 19th century. Massage therapy dates back thousands of years. References to massage appear in writings from ancient China, Japan, India, Arabic nations, Egypt, Greece (Hippocrates defined medicine as "the art of rubbing"), and Rome.



I guess we agree with you in some sence then, I got to admit it's quite mainstream, but. its still an alternative treatment. Let's say its tied. :)

W@@dy

First Sergeant
Posts: 2517
Joined: 12 Nov 2007

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 11:20 Profile United States


Rombus wrote:

W@@dy wrote:

Rhombus, you're argument is "There are no studies on it, therefore it is wrong and does not work." at least until you provide sources on all alternative medicines that prove they are ineffective >.>


Prove I am not a unicorn. You can't, and therefor I must be. Haha! I have destroyed you with my logic!

You have absolutely no idea how this works do you?


No...by not being able to prove you aren't a unicorn, I can neither say you are, or are not a unicorn.

Likewise, by not being able to prove all alternative medicines are dangerous/don't work, you cannot say they all are dangerous and don't work, or that they are all safe and effective.


Notice lack of insult/erroneous shot at the quoted.

viking_from_norway

Staff Sergeant
Posts: 617
Joined: 27 May 2009

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 11:34 Profile Norway


W@@dy wrote:

Rombus wrote:

W@@dy wrote:

Rhombus, you're argument is "There are no studies on it, therefore it is wrong and does not work." at least until you provide sources on all alternative medicines that prove they are ineffective >.>


Prove I am not a unicorn. You can't, and therefor I must be. Haha! I have destroyed you with my logic!

You have absolutely no idea how this works do you?


No...by not being able to prove you aren't a unicorn, I can neither say you are, or are not a unicorn.

Likewise, by not being able to prove all alternative medicines are dangerous/don't work, you cannot say they all are dangerous and don't work, or that they are all safe and effective.


Notice lack of insult/erroneous shot at the quoted.



for all we know you could be a african black unicorn. That could be why your reasoning is all corny.

Buckaroo Banzai

Sergeant
Posts: 424
Joined: 11 Aug 2003

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 11:35 Profile United States


SgtSVJones wrote:

Buckaroo Banzai wrote:

Quote:

HeadOn! Apply directly to the forehead!
HeadOn! Apply directly to the forehead!
HeadOn! Apply directly to the forehead!


That stuff works. I have migranes that sometimes come on as fast and hit as hard as a freight train. Tried HeadOn for a laugh and I'll be dogged if it didn't work. I've also had great success with an acupressure technique for headaches when nothing else was available.



I KNOW you're going to hate me for this but Head-On is just a stick of scented wax. Similar to a scented candle except minus the wick.

See here:
http://bit.ly/jFRGP

EDIT: The original link contained a ToS violation which broke the link. I have fixed it
http://www.cracked.com/article...ts.html

^^Not actual link-replace the word in all caps with a 3 letter vulgar synonym for butt, if you don't feel comfy with my shortened link^^



Here's the deal. There's no known cause for migraines. Doctors just don't know what causes them. Sometimes aspirin works, sometimes not depending on if you can catch it before the pain and other symptoms become too severe. HeadOn may indeed work on the placebo effect, but let's look at definitions of that:

http://www.answers.com/topic/p...-effect

Quote:

The real or imagined effect of a placebo, which may actually be the same effect ordinarily associated with the administration of a therapeutically active agent.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

Quote:

Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition



http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html

Quote:

A placebo (Latin for "I shall please") is a pharmacologically inert substance (such as saline solution or a starch tablet) that produces an effect similar to what would be expected of a pharmacologically active substance (such as an antibiotic).

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Rombus

Recruit
Posts: 0
Joined: 25 Mar 2009

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 13:53 Profile Bermuda


HeadOn is a stick of wax people buy and rub on their heads and then are magically cured because their main problem was an acute surplus of money.

If something doesn't work better than placebo, then it doesn't work.

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Last edited by Rombus on 01 Apr 2011 13:55; edited 1 time in total
Rombus

Recruit
Posts: 0
Joined: 25 Mar 2009

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 13:55 Profile Bermuda


W@@dy wrote:

No...by not being able to prove you aren't a unicorn, I can neither say you are, or are not a unicorn.



You should go back to your grade school and slap the hell out of every one of your teachers for releasing you into the world without explaining to you how critical thinking works.

wrath_of_grunge

Private First Class
Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 14:03 Profile


we all know Rhombus is a pretty pink princess.

wrath_of_grunge

Private First Class
Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 14:12 Profile


Quote:

Doctors in one study successfully eliminated warts by painting them with a brightly colored, inert dye and promising patients the warts would be gone when the color wore off. In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchodilator, even when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist thought the machine was on. Fifty-two percent of the colitis patients treated with placebo in 11 different trials reported feeling better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed intestines actually looked better when assessed with a sigmoidoscope ("The Placebo Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).*



i found this the most interesting part of what buck posted.

greeneyes

Sergeant
Posts: 339
Joined: 04 Jan 2011

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 18:37 Profile Satellite Provider


alternative medicine is dumb and dangerous that even afraid to write about it, anyway here we have an alternative medicine scientifically proven.

Quote:

Homeopathy
Homeopathy is a form of alternative medicine in which practitioners treat patients using highly diluted preparations that are believed to cause healthy people to exhibit symptoms that are similar to those exhibited by the patient. The collective weight of scientific evidence has found homeopathy to be no more effective than a placebo.



read here if you please:
http://www.uchospitals.edu/onl...=P00182
and here:
http://www.homeopathyusa.org/

thank you for your time.

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[MIA]KCToker

Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 2075
Joined: 15 Dec 2005

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 18:50 Profile United States


greeneyes wrote:

alternative medicine is dumb and dangerous that even afraid to write about it, anyway here we have an alternative medicine scientifically proven.

Quote:

Homeopathy
Homeopathy is a form of alternative medicine in which practitioners treat patients using highly diluted preparations that are believed to cause healthy people to exhibit symptoms that are similar to those exhibited by the patient. The collective weight of scientific evidence has found homeopathy to be no more effective than a placebo.



read here if you please:
http://www.uchospitals.edu/onl...=P00182
and here:
http://www.homeopathyusa.org/

thank you for your time.



Not sure if serious.

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Defiant47 wrote:

TheGunny wrote:

Abstract is to Art as KFC is to chicken

Finger licking good?

Rombus

Recruit
Posts: 0
Joined: 25 Mar 2009

      Posted: 01 Apr 2011 20:09 Profile Bermuda


[MIA]KCToker wrote:

Not sure if serious.



I hope he is because I have pages and pages of ammo on this one. Homeopathy isn't even internally consistent.

Buckaroo Banzai

Sergeant
Posts: 424
Joined: 11 Aug 2003

      Posted: 02 Apr 2011 00:27 Profile United States


So then, if it isn't made by a multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical company and/or prescribed by a pill pushing doctor it can't possibly work. That's your whole argument?


 Alternative Medicine is Dumb and Dangerous 
 

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