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 More Black Men Now in Prison System than Were Enslaved 
 

greeneyes

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Posts: 339
Joined: 04 Jan 2011

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 16:49 Profile Satellite Provider


alright, it seems that my friends are with neurons a bit excited, 'll calm them down.
this topic in itself is a fraud, when you say "Now More Black Men in Prison than System Were Enslaved" you are making an affirmation misplaced and without context. if the population has increased ten times (from the time that you refer) there would be no surprise, even if those numbers were true. if you look at the year 1860 you will find that the number of slaves was more than twice the number of detainees in 2010, therefore your assertion is far beyond the meaning and is fake. expect to achieve, with these affirmations completely out of context, an honest discussion? you gotta be kidding.

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Rombus

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      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 17:17 Profile Bermuda


Did you expect to have a discussion without actually reading the OP? Because all your complaints are addressed within.

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Lich[001]

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Posts: 421
Joined: 17 Feb 2004

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 17:31 Profile


I was unaware "LOLNOPE" combined with "LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU REFUSE TO READ THE OP" were legitimate arguments and refutations. This would have been so useful to know in Debate.

I don't really expect any nuanced discussions on this forum, but seriously. I truly doubt 90% of the respondents in the thread have even read the article posted.

The article linked has citations. Not one of you in this thread has provided a citation for the statistics you've invented in response.

**EDIT**

Further, "Africans"? Really? I'm pretty sure we're discussing citizens of the United States of America here, who have had families who've existed in this country as long as, if not longer, than most of you.

They aren't freaking Africans, they're Americans.

wrath_of_grunge

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Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 17:57 Profile


no. i'm pretty sure that when they have to fill out questionnaires asking about ethnicity, American isn't a option.

political correctness looks nice on the forums and all but it really gets in the way of good, honest, discussions.

wogEdit:
Lich[001] wrote:

I was unaware "LOLNOPE" combined with "LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU REFUSE TO READ THE OP" were legitimate arguments and refutations. This would have been so useful to know in Debate.

I don't really expect any nuanced discussions on this forum, but seriously. I truly doubt 90% of the respondents in the thread have even read the article posted.

The article linked has citations. Not one of you in this thread has provided a citation for the statistics you've invented in response.



a) how long have you been here? LOLNOPE and LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU, are not only reasonable responses given that this is R&R, but hell even members of government use them as valid responses.

b) you did not provide a citation for the statistic you used suggesting that 90% didn't read the OP. did you conduct a survey? if so show the results. CITATION NEEDED!

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Last edited by wrath_of_grunge on 30 Mar 2011 18:01; edited 1 time in total
greeneyes

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Posts: 339
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      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 17:59 Profile Satellite Provider


besides that i can not find a valid reason to compare enslaved with in jail.
enslaved were oppressed by cruelty and arrogance.
in jail are merely criminals.
where is the resemblance between the two facts?

wrath_of_grunge

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Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 18:04 Profile


any decent lawyer worth his wingtips will tell you, innocent people go to jail all the time. it happens.

in that respect, enslavement and jailing are pretty much the same. you're told when to get up, what to do, when to eat, when to go to bed, who you can talk to, for how long, who you can see, your mail is read before you get it, your outgoing mail is read before it's sent out, in most jails keeping track of time (by making a calender on piece of paper) is actually a separate, jail able offense.

i forgot, were we talking about enslavement or jail?

greeneyes

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      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 18:11 Profile Satellite Provider


if we are talking about innocent people in jail can not confine the discussion to black men because there are innocent people in jail from all races and ethnicities.
still can not understand what is being discussed here.

wrath_of_grunge

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Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 18:22 Profile


realistically our capatialist society needs someone on the bottom. before the civil war it was the blacks, afterwards a new system emerged.

today's modern slaves are the poor. upwards mobility in our economy is harder than ever. we have places like vegas and detroit BULLDOZING HOUSES yet we still have HOMELESS people. any reasonable society would see that we have a problem and a viable solution, yet we let [TOS Violation] and morons legislate us into sedation.

we have some of the greatest doctors and medical equipment mankind has to offer, yet people still suffer. the reason i lack empathy for the black man's plight has to do with the fact that a majority of it is self-inflicted. maybe not on a individual level, but certainly on a community level.

when young men stop investing thousands of dollars in rims, and start using that money for their future, their situation will improve.

when we stop criminalizing the public unions and start looking at the real criminals we will find our morals as a country. make no mistake, this country is at war, but it's not in the middle east, it's here at home. this war isn't being fought with guns and bullets, it's being fought with legislation and lawyers. the enemy isn't foreign-born terrorists, but natural-born citizens.

it is a war between the rich and the poor. when people sober up and realize there's a problem here at home, maybe then we can begin to address it. it took the Egyptians 40 some odd years to remove Hosni. the Lybians are still working on their dictator. who knows how long it will take to deal with ours. we have to figure out who it is first. remember the president is just a distraction for the mindless masses.

aMMo.@c

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Joined: 29 Aug 2007

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 18:38 Profile United States


I read the article(s). They typed a whole lot of words that amount to nothing more than stating the fact that blacks and Latinos have higher incarceration rates than whites. I see nothing else of value in them at all.

I suppose they intended for us to infer simply based on the numbers that there must be some great injustice in the system responsible for this. Obviously its a denial game, the problems can't possibly come from within the racial communities.

The war on drugs surely has grown crime and therefor the prison populations. But that doesn't explain the racial aspect.

You think prison populations are bad now? You'd hate to see the number it should be if they would stop playing catch and release, and hand down proper sentences for the crimes they actually committed. (IE longer and not plead down/dropped charges) .

This isn't a innocent people in jail issue.


Quote:


income
environment
lack of paternal figures in the household



These are some of the real reasons.

You can add, "culture" specially referring to the hip-hop/gangsta culture.

Education, but generally this is a parental issue. The opportunity for education exists, the desire for the education is the problem. The adults/parents in there lives are not involved. They for one do not raise them to behave, to have respect, they don't push their children to stay out of trouble and work hard in school to succeed.

The emphasis in the community to strive be a sports star, rapper, or drug dealer. Last two usually go hand in hand.

The problem also comes from the system, from liberal policy's. Welfare/etc, trains people to be dependent on the government and not themselves. Creates generations of welfare leeches.

Both liberal policy's and attitudes within their communities that tell them they are not good enough, that they can't succeed on their own, that the white man will keep them down. This includes affirmative action policy's. The reparations attitude, that the white man owes them something.

You have the attitude within the community to be proud to be "black" and therefor act "black". Its not really about acting black so much is it is about acting ghetto/ignorant.

Success is often frowned upon by their own community, taking your education seriously, being responsible, and succeeding in life makes you an "Uncle Tom", etc.

This isn't just a poor issue either and its certainly not a last resort, no other choice, I must sell drugs to support myself and family issue. The majority of them started this criminal path in life since they were children and young teenagers. The "coolness" attracted them to it, the money and glamor (in their minds) that goes along with it, while being enabled by absent parents or simply BAD parents. Many of their parents encourage their behavior, because guess what they were the ones who taught them their values and to behave that way.

Rombus

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      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 19:11 Profile Bermuda


Blacks also have higher conviction rates, and receive harsher sentences than whites.

I guess if they had better parents they wouldn't go to jail for so much longer than white offenders who commit the same crimes. Once again lots of words, then "LIBERALS!" and no citations.

aMMo.@c

Private First Class
Posts: 130
Joined: 29 Aug 2007

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 19:13 Profile United States


Rombus wrote:

Blacks also have higher conviction rates, and receive harsher sentences than whites.

I guess if they had better parents they wouldn't go to jail for so much longer than white offenders who commit the same crimes. Once again lots of words, then "LIBERALS!" and no citations.



I suppose it has nothing to do with evidence, prior convictions, their defense (or lack there of).

Rombus

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      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 19:16 Profile Bermuda


aMMo.@c wrote:

I suppose it has nothing to do with evidence, prior convictions, their defense.



Not as far as I know. Do you have a study you'd like to share?

aMMo.@c

Private First Class
Posts: 130
Joined: 29 Aug 2007

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 19:16 Profile United States


I has experience. I don't need biased studies.

wrath_of_grunge

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Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Dec 2002

      Posted: 30 Mar 2011 19:45 Profile


Rombus wrote:

Blacks also have higher conviction rates, and receive harsher sentences than whites.

I guess if they had better parents they wouldn't go to jail for so much longer than white offenders who commit the same crimes. Once again lots of words, then "LIBERALS!" and no citations.



i would like to see a study done based on how many people in jail relied on public defenders as opposed to actual lawyers.

money for defense comes to mind in alot of these cases. i've seen all walks of life in jail, but the majority of them had ONE big thing in common. they're poor and couldn't afford a good defense.

when i was in jail for a pack of papers there was a kid who was under 21 in there for his SECOND dui. he had crashed his car into something, left the scene and made it home. i had to do 30 days for a pack of rolling papers. this punk kid wrecked his 2004 Acura RSX his mommy and daddy bought for him because he was so drunk he ran into a stationary object. his punishment was 48 hours. that's money talking right there bud.


 More Black Men Now in Prison System than Were Enslaved 
 

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