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 International Military Action in Libya 
 

ROUGHRIDER13

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      Posted: 19 Mar 2011 16:48 Profile United States


I don't have much to say on the topic, so I mostly want the community to express their opinions. I'm just wondering the extent of US and other country's military involvement in Libya. It also surprises me that France, of all countries, is the leading force in Libya. I doubt that politicians really care about Libyan civilians, and they just want to be first in line for oil contracts.

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Last edited by ROUGHRIDER13 on 19 Mar 2011 19:05; edited 1 time in total
viking_from_norway

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      Posted: 19 Mar 2011 16:51 Profile Norway


indeed all they care about is the oil. France get's really [TOS Violation] when the oil prizes go up. they are quite up on the front lately... russia is for the war commently known, sell weapons etc. US don't want to take action without the UN approval so we'll see.

haha freedom is win
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greeneyes

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 10:02 Profile Satellite Provider


viking_from_norway wrote:

indeed all they care about is the oil.


And Natural Gas.

Octavius_Generalista

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 10:12 Profile United States


It is very strange when Europe actually spearheads a military action instead of the USA. And as an American residing in a mostly Red State, I have some friends that actually are upset that we let Europe (particularly those dirty Frenchies) push this thing through instead of us. Of course, it's the sign of Obama's weakness etc.

But, to me, it makes perfect sense that the US would enter into this with a lower profile. The last thing the Libyan rebels need to destroy their credibility is to appear owned by the USA. People get leery when the USA starts bombing countries with oil, I have no idea what would give them such thoughts Smile .

And it is not surprising Europe would have more interest in this than us anyways. The USA didnt really have a great relationship with Libya prior to this, whereas Europe does, especially France and Italy. They need resolution on this so business can get back to usual.

I do have some big concerns though, cuz this action can really escalate. You tear down a system, a new system must replace it, at a financial cost. I'd prefer the USA stay out of the forefront on this. I'd like to see Gaddafi out of course, we doesnt? If all of us can assist in some form of Democracy over there, obviously it's good in the long run. Hell, we can maybe buy some oil from them!

Thats what it boils down to with me. How much is it gonna cost, and can it benefit me in the long run?

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greeneyes

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 10:23 Profile Satellite Provider


Octavius_Generalista wrote:

I'd like to see Gaddafi out of course, we doesnt?



I disagree.
Countries of North Africa and Middle East without a dictatorial regime becomes The Chaos.

Octavius_Generalista

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 10:38 Profile United States


greeneyes wrote:

Octavius_Generalista wrote:

I'd like to see Gaddafi out of course, we doesnt?



I disagree.
Countries of North Africa and Middle East without a dictatorial regime becomes The Chaos.

That is true in the past, Saddam Hussein, being the perfect example. But, ultimately, these guys are failing. The median age in all these countries is getting lower and lower. These kids are plugged in. They are more educated than in days of old. They are online just like we are, chatting, watching Youtube videos, and some pron. They don't want crazy religious regimes. The Egyptians didnt kick out a dictator, to step into another form of oppression. These kids want just a little of what we have. Iran's system of govt aint gonna get that for them. Some crazy stuff is going on, no doubt. I know, in the past, we have not promoted democracy at all in the middle east. It was essentially our policy. Give big bucks to the despot, prop him, and he sells us oil. But the toothpaste is out of the tube now, you can't put it back in.

ROUGHRIDER13

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 11:08 Profile United States


Octavius_Generalista wrote:

I do have some big concerns though, cuz this action can really escalate. You tear down a system, a new system must replace it, at a financial cost. I'd prefer the USA stay out of the forefront on this.I



Forget financial cost right now. In a perfect world, the next system after the dictator regimes in Egypt and Libya will be better. But what will replace them? Will the Muslims take over and will Sharia law rule the land?(not trying to be anti-anything here, not speaking with harmful intentions)

My worry is that after these dictator regimes are taken down, some other leaders will replace them that aren't much better. In Korea, after the South was liberated, I believe two high-ranking military officers took over, got greedy, and tried to modify the Constitution so that they could stay in power with more force. Will something similar happen in these countries? Right now, anyone with a charismatic personality and people to watch his back can take over.

Octavius_Generalista

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 11:09 Profile United States


But anyways, I don't think airstrikes and cruise missiles is gonna push Gadaffi out of power. Maybe I'm wrong. All he has to do is hunker down in Tripoli and promise to make some reforms. Then what do we do? Overthrow him anyways? I guess we'll just arm the rebels to the point they have superior firepower, but it would require quite a bit for them to roll into Tripoli. I could actually see him staying in power throughout this deal.

greeneyes

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 11:24 Profile Satellite Provider


Any attempt to democratize these countries is opening the way for global chaos.
Due to their ancestral cultures he'll never know live in a democracy. We will turn dictatorships into corruption regimes. The wealth of these countries will never be evenly distributed.
With these attempts to democratization we are only exacerbating the problems with illegal immigration that civilized/western countries are suffering right now.
Go ahead destroy what remains.

ROUGHRIDER13

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 15:14 Profile United States


Octavius_Generalista wrote:

But anyways, I don't think airstrikes and cruise missiles is gonna push Gadaffi out of power. Maybe I'm wrong. All he has to do is hunker down in Tripoli and promise to make some reforms. Then what do we do? Overthrow him anyways? I guess we'll just arm the rebels to the point they have superior firepower, but it would require quite a bit for them to roll into Tripoli. I could actually see him staying in power throughout this deal.



To stay in power he has to do two things:
-get someone to shoot up a school bus in three major cities in east, central, and west US
-get some anti-aircraft missiles smuggled into a major state and set them up in a hidden area around a major airport

This would ruin the economy in the country and would effectively take the US out of the whole Libya-deal (remember, Bush and Congelissa Rice are gone, now we have Obama)

ROUGHRIDER13

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 15:17 Profile United States


greeneyes wrote:

Any attempt to democratize these countries is opening the way for global chaos.
Due to their ancestral cultures he'll never know live in a democracy. We will turn dictatorships into corruption regimes. The wealth of these countries will never be evenly distributed.
With these attempts to democratization we are only exacerbating the problems with illegal immigration that civilized/western countries are suffering right now.
Go ahead destroy what remains.



Worst thing that could happen to the Middle East right now is finding an alternative to oil. The countries are already in ruins, imagine when oil is useless.

Octavius_Generalista

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      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 15:42 Profile United States


I don't see a system based on Sharia Law taking over in Egypt. Those people were demanding freedoms and opportunities that would not be possible with Sharia. Now, who knows with Libya, it seems a civil war where we don't even know what the rebels stand for, other than they are of some tribe other than gadhafi's.

Lich[001]

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Joined: 17 Feb 2004

      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 16:15 Profile


ITT: A complete lack of understanding of anything but the western world.

Octavius_Generalista

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Posts: 48
Joined: 11 May 2005

      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 16:20 Profile United States


well, someone, by all means, bring on the understanding!

Rombus

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Joined: 25 Mar 2009

      Posted: 20 Mar 2011 17:29 Profile Bermuda


ITT America blows up a whole bunch of worthless junk with million dollar TLAMs and has no long term plan.

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 International Military Action in Libya 
 

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