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 Partial self healing idea. 
 

Razorback718

Sergeant
Posts: 361
Joined: 27 Apr 2003

      Posted: 27 Dec 2010 14:56 Profile Iceland


I just want them to implement an ROE system where if you shoot a wounded and downed player while in a fire fight with a nearby enemy, that it doesn't count as ROE.

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viking_from_norway

Staff Sergeant
Posts: 617
Joined: 27 May 2009

      Posted: 29 Dec 2010 20:30 Profile Norway


hmmmm, if they added self healing should they add an animation? or look blindly into the air. it kinda makes sence when healing each other. but yourself its kinda wierd. adding an animtation, may be complex if not adding an multi-animation.

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[Dev]Doc

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Posts: 356
Joined: 09 Aug 2010

      Posted: 29 Dec 2010 22:54 Profile United States


viking_from_norway wrote:

hmmmm, if they added self healing should they add an animation? or look blindly into the air. it kinda makes sence when healing each other. but yourself its kinda wierd. adding an animtation, may be complex if not adding an multi-animation.



L4D did fine with their "bandaging" anim loop.

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viking_from_norway

Staff Sergeant
Posts: 617
Joined: 27 May 2009

      Posted: 30 Dec 2010 06:29 Profile Norway


[Dev]Doc wrote:

viking_from_norway wrote:

hmmmm, if they added self healing should they add an animation? or look blindly into the air. it kinda makes sence when healing each other. but yourself its kinda wierd. adding an animtation, may be complex if not adding an multi-animation.



L4D did fine with their "bandaging" anim loop.



I agree... but in l4d's bandaging you were in 3 person do you think it should be that too? i disagree with that, but It would like quite awesome in 1person if done nicely.

JoseyWales

Private First Class
Posts: 106
Joined: 10 Dec 2009

      Posted: 17 Jan 2011 11:09 Profile United States


Cool Idea. like in aa2, but I think it should only slow the bleeding and not allow you to bleed out from the wound(s) as in your health won't go beneath the incap line. You should not be able to self apply bandages to chest wounds I don't see how you could but maybe i'm wrong.

Buckeye11

Sergeant
Posts: 257
Joined: 18 Feb 2005

      Posted: 17 Jan 2011 12:48 Profile


Napoleons-ghost! wrote:

I agree with almost everything you've said guys.
But it really should depend on the location of the wound! Not even superman can stop the bleeding from a shot in the back for instance.


But wouldn't the exit hole need the most attention? I don't know, I'm not a doctor.

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[Dev]Doc

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      Posted: 17 Jan 2011 14:03 Profile United States


Buckeye11 wrote:

Napoleons-ghost! wrote:

I agree with almost everything you've said guys.
But it really should depend on the location of the wound! Not even superman can stop the bleeding from a shot in the back for instance.


But wouldn't the exit hole need the most attention? I don't know, I'm not a doctor.



The most visible tissue trauma is going to be at the exit wound - as you're alluding to, the exit wound is going to be bigger and messier. Whether or not more severe hemorrhaging has occurred there or not still depends on what the bullet + cavitation affected. In nearly all cases (all that I can think of) the major life-threatening hemorrhage is occurring very deep to the wound, because most arteries and major veins are deep. So when you apply pressure to the superficial wound (applying a pressure bandage in the field), you're hoping to fill the space opened by the bullet or shrapnel fragments with blood and put enough pressure on the deep source of hemorrhage, which makes clotting more feasible. The exit wound being "bigger" makes it trickier, and at the very least requiring more gauze to stop up.

This whole process is a lot more intuitive than I'm making it sound...Ummmm, for your own sake out there in the real world, if there's bleeding PUT PRESSURE ON IT. If you have gauze, pack it into the wound until you can pack no more; if you don't have gauze, use your shirt to put pressure on it. If that won't work, use your finger - just remember to put pressure on it. Pressure stops bleeding. Period.

Thinking about what I'm saying it occurs to me that I need to point out - what I post on this forum will never be a substitute for actual first aid training. I heartily recommend that you all get EMT certified or take some first aid and CPR courses. It will likely save your life or someone near you, and it's not the worst way to spend a little bit of free time! Certainly better than sitting around playing PC games...

Buckeye11

Sergeant
Posts: 257
Joined: 18 Feb 2005

      Posted: 17 Jan 2011 20:38 Profile


Thanks for the explanation Doc! I need to get re-certified by the red cross I think my certification expired last Spring and it should as I feel like I've forgotten everything!
Pwned You wrote:

One thing i don't like about the medic system in AA3 is the IFAK. I think it's stupid that you get one multi-tool peice of equipment. There is no way that some breathing apparatus can be turned into a leg brace. You should get one of each of the options and they should show up on your loadout with your grenades by the health and stance bar.


Now if I'm not mistaken, when I was poolee for USMC (didn't work out in the end, oh well things happen for a reason) I think I read in USMC Guidebook of Essential Subjects that you always use the injured person's first aid equipment and never your own.

[Dev]Doc

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      Posted: 17 Jan 2011 22:01 Profile United States


Buckeye11 wrote:

Thanks for the explanation Doc! I need to get re-certified by the red cross I think my certification expired last Spring and it should as I feel like I've forgotten everything!
Pwned You wrote:

One thing i don't like about the medic system in AA3 is the IFAK. I think it's stupid that you get one multi-tool peice of equipment. There is no way that some breathing apparatus can be turned into a leg brace. You should get one of each of the options and they should show up on your loadout with your grenades by the health and stance bar.


Now if I'm not mistaken, when I was poolee for USMC (didn't work out in the end, oh well things happen for a reason) I think I read in USMC Guidebook of Essential Subjects that you always use the injured person's first aid equipment and never your own.



That's something we talk about a lot at work. I will say that, in my opinion, breaking the IFAK into four separate pieces will be too little reward for too much complexity. Have you used the piece that this patient needs? You won't know until you get there, so it's infeasible to keep track of how capable you are vs. your buddy. Whether or not people use that knowledge of who has their gear or who doesn't is irrelevant, since we can only design a space that allows players to use tactics. That's just my opinion on the four piece discussion.

As for using the other guy's IFAK, I've said before and will say again - I am completely for using the other guy's equipment, since it's SOP in the real world and, I believe, better for gameplay. Speaking to the original point I still think that self-stabilization should be a medic(68W)-qualified thing only. I also think I should design the training course, and as such, it should be seven kinds of challenging to pass.

JoseyWales

Private First Class
Posts: 106
Joined: 10 Dec 2009

      Posted: 18 Jan 2011 00:21 Profile United States


[Dev]Doc wrote:

Buckeye11 wrote:

Thanks for the explanation Doc! I need to get re-certified by the red cross I think my certification expired last Spring and it should as I feel like I've forgotten everything!
Pwned You wrote:

One thing i don't like about the medic system in AA3 is the IFAK. I think it's stupid that you get one multi-tool peice of equipment. There is no way that some breathing apparatus can be turned into a leg brace. You should get one of each of the options and they should show up on your loadout with your grenades by the health and stance bar.


Now if I'm not mistaken, when I was poolee for USMC (didn't work out in the end, oh well things happen for a reason) I think I read in USMC Guidebook of Essential Subjects that you always use the injured person's first aid equipment and never your own.



That's something we talk about a lot at work. I will say that, in my opinion, breaking the IFAK into four separate pieces will be too little reward for too much complexity. Have you used the piece that this patient needs? You won't know until you get there, so it's infeasible to keep track of how capable you are vs. your buddy. Whether or not people use that knowledge of who has their gear or who doesn't is irrelevant, since we can only design a space that allows players to use tactics. That's just my opinion on the four piece discussion.

As for using the other guy's IFAK, I've said before and will say again - I am completely for using the other guy's equipment, since it's SOP in the real world and, I believe, better for gameplay. Speaking to the original point I still think that self-stabilization should be a medic(68W)-qualified thing only. I also think I should design the training course, and as such, it should be seven kinds of challenging to pass.



What about allowing the use of a soldiers kit if your med kit is gone? Why not have an option to pick up his and then apply the treatment if you do not have your pack.

Kanshi.Arg

Staff Sergeant
Posts: 910
Joined: 26 Dec 2006

      Posted: 18 Jan 2011 01:01 Profile Argentina


[Dev]Doc wrote:

As for using the other guy's IFAK, I've said before and will say again - I am completely for using the other guy's equipment, since it's SOP in the real world and, I believe, better for gameplay. Speaking to the original point I still think that self-stabilization should be a medic(68W)-qualified thing only. I also think I should design the training course, and as such, it should be seven kinds of challenging to pass.



I think that 68W should be the only class able to "revive" a soldier. Regular infantry should only be able to stabilize the victim and prevent further blood loss ( perhaps they should also be able to revive someone with smelling salts )

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darksmaster923

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Posts: 648
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      Posted: 18 Jan 2011 02:00 Profile Sierra Leone


Kanshi.Arg wrote:

[Dev]Doc wrote:

As for using the other guy's IFAK, I've said before and will say again - I am completely for using the other guy's equipment, since it's SOP in the real world and, I believe, better for gameplay. Speaking to the original point I still think that self-stabilization should be a medic(68W)-qualified thing only. I also think I should design the training course, and as such, it should be seven kinds of challenging to pass.



I think that 68W should be the only class able to "revive" a soldier. Regular infantry should only be able to stabilize the victim and prevent further blood loss ( perhaps they should also be able to revive someone with smelling salts )


The IFAK has all 4 things, don't see why they could only use one.

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Kanshi.Arg

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      Posted: 18 Jan 2011 02:42 Profile Argentina


darksmaster923 wrote:

Kanshi.Arg wrote:

[Dev]Doc wrote:

As for using the other guy's IFAK, I've said before and will say again - I am completely for using the other guy's equipment, since it's SOP in the real world and, I believe, better for gameplay. Speaking to the original point I still think that self-stabilization should be a medic(68W)-qualified thing only. I also think I should design the training course, and as such, it should be seven kinds of challenging to pass.



I think that 68W should be the only class able to "revive" a soldier. Regular infantry should only be able to stabilize the victim and prevent further blood loss ( perhaps they should also be able to revive someone with smelling salts )


The IFAK has all 4 things, don't see why they could only use one.



I meant that using the IFAK you can stabilize a soldier preventing his death or significant health lose ( smelling salts would be different since in that case the victim just would be unconscius ). The 68W would be able to stabilize AND revive a soldier, bringing him back into combat.

I was thinking about something like this:
Soldier is hurt but not incapacitated ------- Regular healing methods
Soldier is hurt and incapacitated ------- Use IFAK and healing methods. The soldier will remain incapacitated until revived by a medic ( If IFAK is wrongly applied, soldier can be healed but continues to lose health at a slower rate until treated correctly )

Pwned You

Sergeant
Posts: 292
Joined: 08 Oct 2010

      Posted: 20 Jan 2011 12:44 Profile United Kingdom


If you use the person being healed's IFAK each person can only be revived once though (if you get unlucky enough to get downed twice).

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[Dev]Doc

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      Posted: 20 Jan 2011 14:55 Profile United States


Pwned You wrote:

If you use the person being healed's IFAK each person can only be revived once though (if you get unlucky enough to get downed twice).



The 'other guy's IFAK" concept can be summarized by a real-world scenario - a thought exercise, if you will.

I am getting shot at. So is my gunner. My gunner gets hit. I use his IFAK. My gunner gets hit again, requiring gauze that I no longer have. I use my own IFAK.

VERSUS -

My gunner gets hit. I use my IFAK. My gunner gets Medevac'd. Now his supplies have left the battlefield with him.
-or, in game and a similar vein (PUN!)-
My SAW gunner is the SAW gunner, he uses the SAW for what the SAW is good for and I am, for the most part, watching his back. He gets hit and I use my IFAK. Then someone else in the squad gets hit, and I can do nothing - the SAW gunner must stop doing what he's good for, good at, and in position to do, to treat someone with his equipment, since mine is gone. There is now a serious vulnerability in the squad that could've been avoided.

I can frame this another way. A soldier gets hit, and needs medical supplies at his location. The medical supplies are needed at the injury. So it always makes more sense to use the supplies that the hurt guy has on him first, and the ones you have on you second...he's a lot less likely to be mobile enough to need them again, and if he does, the next guy who is hurt will have his.


That's what I mean by "using the other guy's IFAK" - it implies using your own when the patient's is gone.

Edit: Why would anyone USE SO MANY CAPS ALL THE TIME IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE YELLING AND FRANKLY IT'S INSULTING.


 Partial self healing idea. 
 

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